Can CBN Be Used For Better Sleep? With Ethan Carr, Slumber CBN

Can CBN Be Used For Better Sleep? With Ethan Carr, Slumber CBN
Ministry of Hemp Podcast

In the Ministry of Hemp Podcast, Matt learns more about CBN, a cannabinoid that many consumers report acts as a sleep aid.

With more than 70% of U.S. citizens suffering from sleep deprivation, new hemp-based solutions have stepped up to replace pharmaceutical grade sleep aids. Just like CBD, some people report CBN can offer better sleep without the side-effects seen in prescription sleep aid medications.

To understand how CBN is helping everday people, Matt talked with Ethan Carr, director of operations at Slumber CBN in Denver, Colorado. Slumber is one of a number of companies that have entered the hemp health market recently focusing on CBN, rather than CBD.

We’ve already covered some of the differences between CBN and CBD, but we plan on publishing our own detailed introduction to CBN soon.

Thanks to our partners Ott Coffee for making this episode of the Ministry of Hemp podcast possible.

Brought to you by Ott Coffee

The Ministry of Hemp is proud to partner with Ott Coffee.

Hailing from Austin, Texas, Ott Coffee combines their artisan coffee with CBD for a whole new experience in your cup. Ott Coffee provides you with an alert, focused, and mellow state of mind minus the annoying jitters, anxiety, and crashes. They handcraft their products, made with high-quality ingredients that leave you with a relaxed and focused state of mind.

Use the code ott15 to get 15% off your first purchase at Ott Coffee.

Be sure to check out episode 43 of our podcast for Matt’s interview with Alwan Mortada, CEO of Ott Coffee, too. Thanks Ott Coffee, for making today’s episode possible!

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Some consumers and preliminary research suggests CBN can help people get better sleep. Ethan Carr (insert, right) is the director of operations of Slumber CBN, which focuses on this cannabinoid.

CBN for better sleep: Complete episode transcript

Below you’ll find the complete transcript of episode 56 of the Ministry of Hemp podcast, “Can CBN be used for better sleep?”:

Matt Baum:
I’m Matt Baum. This is the Ministry of Hemp Podcast, brought to you by ministryofhemp.com, America’s leading advocate for hemp and hemp education.

Matt Baum:
Today on the show, we’re going to talk about CBN (cannabinol). It’s a new cannabinoid that helps you fall asleep. There is a lot of different companies out there that are starting to specialize in CBN all by itself. It’s ironic, because the show today is brought to you by our partners Ott Coffee, who combine CBD with coffee, which makes your cup of coffee so much more. I’m super happy to be partnering with these guys.

Matt Baum:
You may remember back in episode 43, I talked to their founder, Alwan Mortada. I’ll have a link to that show in these show notes, so you can go hear more about it. Later in the show, I will tell you how you can get a free sample for just $5.00 shipping, or 15% off your first order from Ott Coffee. I am a big fan, and I’ve been begging him for more. Alwan even got me drinking decaf, which is a first for this old man, let me tell you. But, we’ll talk more about coffee later. Right now, let’s talk about sleep.

Matt Baum:
I’m sure at some point in your life you’ve heard that we’re supposed to get seven to eight uninterrupted hours of sleep a night. Now, if you’re a light sleeper like me that probably rarely happens. In fact, according to sleephealth.org, “In America, 70% of adults report that they obtain insufficient sleep at least one night a month, and 11% report insufficient sleep every night.” Count me amongst that 11%, for sure. They estimate that sleep-related problems affect 50 to 70 million Americans of all ages.

Matt Baum:
Sleep deprivation has all kinds of terrible effects too, from just wearing down your immune system to permanent psychosis if it lasts too long. Now, a lot of people, and me included, have turned to different sleep aids like some of the major ones you see from commercials on TV where a cartoon butterfly flies in the window and lands on someone’s face and they drift off to sleep. Those are fine. They do their job, but they can also result in some groggy mornings and odd behavior like sleep eating and sleepwalking. A lot of over-the-counter sleep aids are nothing more but knockout drugs.

Focusing on CBN

Matt Baum:
The good news is, there is more and more scientific evidence that’s showing that CBN or cannabinol is excellent for helping you fall asleep. Today on the show, I am talking with Ethan Carr. He’s the director of operations at Slumber Sleep CBN in Denver, Colorado. Ethan and I are going to talk about what is CBN and why it works, how it works, and how to get it working for you. Here is my conversation with Ethan Carr. You’re talking to me from the lab right now, right?

Ethan Carr:
Yes, sir. Yeah, I’m speaking right out of the lab, right where the magic happens.

Matt Baum:
So, if we hear anything, it’s science stuff. Don’t worry, Ethan’s okay.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. If you hear any big bangs, as long as they’re not explosions, I’ll stay right here.

Matt Baum:
So, you guys only deal in CBN and we’re going to get into that real soon here, what CBN is and how it works. But, tell me about the choice to start a company that only works with CBN. Where does that come from?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, totally. When our founders had the brainchild to create Slumber, I believe their goal was to establish an awesome sleep aid product that did not focus on pharmaceuticals. Their focus was with CBN. CBN worked really well as a sleep aid for a lot of their friends and family. That’s when they decided to dive in and try to create an awesome new product.

Matt Baum:
Sleep aids are really gnarly. I don’t think a lot of people realize it. You wake up with a hangover. They knock you out, or they get you so stoned that you can drive your car in your sleep sometimes, or end up eating butter out of the refrigerator like an animal.

Ethan Carr:
Right, right.

Matt Baum:
It’s crazy.

Ethan Carr:
Right, yeah.

Matt Baum:
I will say, I’ve starting using CBN to sleep at night and I really like it. Now, here is the thing, I don’t know what CBN is. I know that it’s a cannabinoid.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah.

Getting to know Ethan Carr

Matt Baum:
I’m hoping you can help us out today. Before you do though, tell me a little bit about you. Why are you the guy? How come I can trust you to tell me this?

Ethan Carr:
Of course, yes. I was born and raised on the East Coast. I went to college in New Hampshire. I found my way out to Colorado with an interest in nature. I went to school for environmental studies. So, I was really focused on finding a new home and getting something new. I found myself working in a CBD lab in Boulder. Within a few weeks, I became very passionate about it. I found it as a very interesting avenue for myself. I liked the work. Through a few various positions over the past couple of years, I was lucky enough to land with Slumber. And as a relatively new company, they relied on me to put forward some nice science and figure out their operation side, and so that’s what I’m doing. I’d like to think that I am a reasonably trustworthy person when it comes to this topic. But, [crosstalk 00:05:31].

Matt Baum:
You don’t seem you’re shady. I’ll tell you that.

Ethan Carr:
Well, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, I’d like to keep up that persona.

Matt Baum:
Did you come from any type of science background, or is this like, you just dove right in?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. Environmental science, I took those few scientific courses throughout school and I found it very, very interesting. I thought it was an awesome way to begin to treat odd diagnosed illnesses.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
We don’t get too, too deep into the wrongful diagnoses and treatment of illness, but there is a lot of science that pushes that there is a lot of therapeutic benefits for cannabinoids. So, I found that really, really interesting and I wanted to learn more myself. So, I did some digging and through the boom of CBD everybody became acquainted. There is so much more to the space than just CBD.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
CBN is one of those.

CBN is CBD’s ‘sleepy relative’

Matt Baum:
So, let’s start there. Real quick, give us a working definition of CBN. And then we’ll talk about how it differs from CBD.

Ethan Carr:
Of course. CBN, cannabinol. If I was to put this into a simple definition, I’d like to call it CBD’s sleepy relative. Right?

Matt Baum:
Yeah, absolutely.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. It works really well as a sleep aid and as a relaxant, so just like a lot of your other minor cannabinoids there are those internal benefits. We were able to lock in there that, CBN at the proper dosage can help you feel a bit sleepy and help you get a nice night’s rest.

Matt Baum:
Right. So, unlike sleep aids, this is not going to knock you out. That’s not the purpose.

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
The purpose is to relax you and get you ready for sleep.

Ethan Carr:
Correct. That’s a great thing to bring up. Unlike your pharmaceutical sleep aids, your Ambien and such, this is not going to make you, like you said earlier, wake up and stand in front of your fridge at 2:00 AM saying, “How did I get here?”

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
It’s not going to knock you out.

Matt Baum:
Birthday cake all over your face.

Ethan Carr:
Right, right, Waking up on the couch and you’re doing something silly in the middle of the night, and you say, “Oh man, this happened again.” Yeah, CBN is not going to do that to you. It’s more of a way to help ease you into that feeling.

Matt Baum:
What is the actual cannabinoid itself, like CBN? We know that CBD is the most popular one, obviously. But CBN, lay that out for me.

Ethan Carr:
CBN, cannabinol.

Matt Baum:
It’s literally, [crosstalk 00:08:02] cannabinol is the N.

Ethan Carr:
Cannabinol.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. C-A-N-N-A-B-I-N-O-L.

Matt Baum:
Not bad.

Ethan Carr:
Cannabinol.

Matt Baum:
I’m not going to spell that right in the notes, don’t worry.

Ethan Carr:
No.

Matt Baum:
I have an editor though.

Ethan Carr:
[inaudible 00:08:14].

Matt Baum:
Kit’s really good at making me look better at this stuff in the posts.

Ethan Carr:
[inaudible 00:08:17]. Yeah, it’s an incredibly unique and interesting cannabinoid, just like the rest of them.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

CBN, CBD & getting better sleep

Ethan Carr:
As science progresses, I believe we’ll learn that there is a lot of potential benefits for all of the other minor cannabinoids. But, CBN specifically, we’ve learned to be therapeutic and beneficial for sleep assistance.

Matt Baum:
How does it differ from CBD, for instance? Because I know CBD is also good for anxiety. It relaxes you and whatnot. But, I will also say, I have never taken CBD and said, “I’m ready to go to bed now.”

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
I take CBD at work to help with anxiety, or to help stay focused.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. I think right down to the basic use for us is, you’re able to lock in a beneficial dosage in a smaller dose. So, in those, a lot of your CBD tinctures you’ll find a rather high potency, or a let’s say just for example, 1,000 milligram CBD tincture in a 30 millimeter bottle.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
It breaks down to about 33 milligrams per milliliter, so about 33 milligrams per dropper-

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
… that you’re ingesting. That’s really beneficial. Our CBN product, our household signature brand that we call Slumber, our signature tincture is a 300 milligram CBN-specific tincture, and that gives you about 10 milligrams of CBN per dropper per milliliter.

Ethan Carr:
Now, how does that differ? Like I said, I think that the best separation would be that it is a sleepy relative. CBD carries many beneficial effects such as those anti-inflammatory properties and anxiety relieving.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
I think that CBN also carries a minor amount of those properties, but really drills home the, I’m beginning to feel sleepy effect.

Matt Baum:
Sure. So, the anti-anxiety and the anti-inflammation is there, but not in the same amount that it is in CBD. Now, you said, your guy’s dosage is lower. Is that because CBN is more powerful, or we just accept it into our systems differently?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. CBN generally binds with the CB2 receptor in the endocannabinoid system. CBN flip flops between the two and can do a little bit of everything.

Matt Baum:
Okay, back up real quick. You had a big word there. Let’s spell that out. Hit me with that. You said, it binds to the?

Ethan Carr:
CB2 receptor.

Matt Baum:
CB2 receptor. What is the CB2 receptor? Of course, I know. I just want to hear you say it.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, yeah. So, within your endocannaboid system, you have those two receptors that are most beneficial for ingesting these cannabinoids. The CB2 is, it’s what we believe is helping induce that sleepy state.

Matt Baum:
Okay, so the cannabinol specifically targets that CB2, or the CB2 specifically looks for that, one of the two?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. The CBN it is a… It primarily binds with the CB2. It has a better relationship, I guess you could say.

Matt Baum:
Just the nature of either the CB2 or the way that they bind, you don’t need as much, period?

Ethan Carr:
That’s a really good question. I think that our dosage really came down to eliminating that groggy feeling.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Better sleep without feeling groggy

Ethan Carr:
I think that was our real goal. So, I’ll give you a good example. My father, he’s an older man, relatively uneducated when it came to the cannabinoids. Right?

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
He took a CBD tincture that I made for him once. He said that, it helped him fall asleep, but he had a hard time getting up the next morning. He felt really groggy. And that wasn’t because it was a high dosage. It was just because he’s not an avid cannabinoid user. Right? He’s not a smoker. He’s not an ingestor.

Matt Baum:
His system wasn’t ready.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, his body was new to it.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
So, he felt rather groggy that next morning. That was a bit of a turn off for him because he had to get up and get ready for work and he wanted to be sharp.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
We’re getting a lot of positive responses that this CBN is able to help you feel that sleepy effect, get you comfortable and doze off. And in the next morning, you wake up feeling rested and not groggy.

Matt Baum:
Right. I can’t say I’ve had that same experience. But, again, I do take CBD daily. I also take THC as well, so my system is used to cannabinoids and whatnot.

Ethan Carr:
Right, right, right.

Matt Baum:
So, just like anything else, you start slow. “Start low and go slow,” is what we always say. Right?

Ethan Carr:
Of course.

Matt Baum:
I wasn’t aware that it could make you feel groggy in higher dosages. But, I guess that makes sense to an extent.

Ethan Carr:
Like you said, it has to do with the individual.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
Everybody’s system is totally different. The same way that if we wanted to associate it similar to consuming alcohol.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
Someone has a real high tolerance and someone doesn’t. Right?

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
So, depending on your body type, your metabolism, and how your endocannabinoid system works, it’ll affect you differently.

Matt Baum:
Sure. A party weirdo will be hungover and average, normal guy who doesn’t party like that is not. He’s going to be ruined for the rest of his life.

Ethan Carr:
Right, right.

Making CBN from CBD

Matt Baum:
It makes sense. How do you guys separate and say, okay, we just want CBN? Is it something where you do something to CBD and it becomes CBN, or is it completely separate and you have to go in and there is some type of different process to extract just that?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. So, just like all hemp derived products, it all starts with a nice quality grown hemp flower.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
The extraction process is almost identical to CBD because CBN is not an extremely high concentration of the hemp flower. If we were doing strictly the extraction, basically we’d need a whole lot of hemp flower and it would make CBN pretty pricey. Right?

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
With a bit of proprietary process, we are able to do some conversion to bring CBD to CBN.

Matt Baum:
So, it literally transforms into CBN?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, through some conversion processes and making sure we’re within our legal boundaries.

Matt Baum:
Of course. Of course.

Ethan Carr:
We’re able to create a quality CBN product that is CBN-specific.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, because there is concern out there right now about changing molecules and whatnot, and are we doing anything illegal? Even though you’re not, and there is nothing illegal going on, you could still be treated like you’re a meth dealer is you’re not careful.

Ethan Carr:
Correct. Correct. Yeah, we’re being as careful as possible and we’re trying to have a nice quality product on the other end.

Try our sponsors, Ott Coffee, for free!

Matt Baum:
Let’s take a quick time out to talk about our partner today, Ott Coffee. That’s O-T-T Coffee. You can find them at ottcoffee.com. They’ve got a newly designed super sexy looking website where you can order your own. Right now, for a limited time, you can get a free sample just by paying $5.00 in shipping.

Matt Baum:
Now, if you listened to episode 43 of this show, you heard me talk to Ott founder, Alwan Mortada all about their coffee. Quite simply, it is coffee plus CBD that leaves you in an alert, focused, but mellow state-of-mind minus the annoying jitters, anxiety and of course, caffeine crashes. They handcraft their own products made with high quality ingredients that leave you with a very relaxed and focused state-of-mind. They would love for you to try out a new way of drinking their coffee.

Matt Baum:
I’m a bit of a coffee snob and I know what I like. I have to say, this is very good coffee. Unlike the other expensive coffees that I buy, this one doesn’t give me jitters. It balances me out, gets me awake, ready for my day, but I also don’t feel like I’m going to vibrate through the floor because I’ve had too much caffeine.

Matt Baum:
Currently, Ott offers two different brews. They’ve got the Productivity series, which is a medium roast coffee blend with smooth notes of caramel, chocolate and vanilla flavors. This is the one he sent me and I love it. Their other brew is a decaf called, the Relaxation series formula. This is a medium roast coffee blend with smooth notes of caramel, chocolate and fruity flavors. It’s also great because I love coffee and I want to drink it all day long. Drinking coffee all day long can probably lead to a heart attack, so it’s not a bad idea to look into something like a decaf. A decaf with CBD also keeps me focused. It keeps me working. There is probably a little bit of placebo there too where my body, who equates coffee to being awake, feels like its drinking coffee, so it is staying awake. I really enjoy both of these and you will too. Whether you’re a coffee snob or not, mixing coffee and CBD works way better than I ever thought it would.

Matt Baum:
Head over to ottcoffee.com right now and support these guys for supporting us. We’re scratching each other’s backs here, and they really do have a great product. Like I said, you can get a free sample just for paying the $5.00 shipping, or you can use the code OTT15. That’s O-T-T15 to get 15% off your first purchase from ottcoffee.com. When you do that, you’re letting them know that the Ministry of Hemp sent you and you are thankful for them sponsoring us. Head to ottcoffee.com, tell them we sent you, and try a little CBD with your coffee. Now, back to my conversation with Ethan Carr.

Learninig more about making CBN from hemp

Matt Baum:
So, let me ask you, you said, it starts with a quality plant, of course. Are you guys growing a certain strain of hemp that is known for having more CBN in it, or less CBD, or something like that?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. So, right now, we actually are not growing specifically. We’ve been able to work with a great third party processor whose been able to hook us up with the tools necessary to create a great CBN product.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
We’ve been working on some new in-house methods. But with the current demand, we’ve been focusing on just working through the kinks right now.

Matt Baum:
So, it makes more sense to transform that CBD into CBN than it does maybe to work on a strain of a plant that’s going to give you more CBN.

Ethan Carr:
To grow it, right. To grow a CBN, a high CBN percentage flower is a…

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
It may be out there right now, but it is not common knowledge.

Matt Baum:
Sure. CBG is something else we’ve talked about the show and on the site.

Ethan Carr:
Right, right.

Matt Baum:
I know that there are strains of that, of hemp, that are showing more CBG. We’re slowly figuring out how to do that. So maybe, CBN is next in that process. I don’t know.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, no, I think that’s a good guess. I think as science progresses and as the stigma around cannabinoid products begins to dissipate, we will hopefully see some more quality strains come out that may be easier to extract and process.

Matt Baum:
Sure. So, tell me about the extraction process. You said, it’s no differ than a CO2 type process, or what do you guys use there?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, very similar to your basic CBD extraction. It’s almost identical. It’s everything right down to a CBD isolate and from there the proprietary conversions kick in.

Matt Baum:
That’s where the magic happens.

Ethan Carr:
That’s where the secrets lie.

Matt Baum:
Wave the wand over it and say the words, whatever, and boom, CBN is born.

Ethan Carr:
Wave the fingers, the abracadabra, and poof.

Matt Baum:
So, what about the science of actually bioavailability? We discussed how you guys dialed back the amount a little bit because you don’t want people feeling groggy. I don’t want to feel groggy either, of course. But, is it a matter of bioavailability where because of the nature of the CBN and the nature of that CB2 receptor you were talking about that we just accept it better, perhaps better than CBD, or is a matter of the oil that you guys are using as far as the carrier, if you will?

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, no, it’s no different. The carrier oil is probably identical to many of your CBD tinctures. The bioavailability is really no different except for when you were to maybe take a soft gel capsule.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
Which is something that we’re also able to offer, which we’re really happy with. The lowest bioavailable delivery form is through a tincture.

Matt Baum:
Of course, yeah.

Ethan Carr:
When ingested and absorbed, it has a much better effect, I believe, personally with me.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
It’s all individual.

Matt Baum:
Is there smokeable, or vapeable CBN out there that you know of?

Ethan Carr:
You can make it, similar to a CBD shatter or a CBD crumble.

Matt Baum:
Okay. You’re not going to get in a pre-roll, obviously, because for the most part you do something to the plant to extract CBD and then turn it into CBN.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, you’re right. It wouldn’t exactly be a smokeable CBN flower.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
But, maybe a caviar joint, if you will…

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
… of a CBN distillate on top.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
Well, that could be done.

Matt Baum:
With an isolate, distillate, or whatever on top. Somebody, I can’t remember who it was, but they sent me some of those. That it was like a CBD pre-roll and it did have CBG on the outside that they had made. They called it a honeycomb or something like that. It was really cool.

Ethan Carr:
Nice.

Matt Baum:
Really cool. But, I also don’t want to smoke before I go to bed.

Ethan Carr:
Right, right. Totally, totally.

All about Slumber CBN

Matt Baum:
I don’t want to stink. My wife is not going to put up with that. [crosstalk 00:22:20]. So, tell me about Slumber. You guys are in Colorado.

Ethan Carr:
Yes, sir.

Matt Baum:
How long have you guys been around? How long have we been doing this?

Ethan Carr:
Slumber, actually is a relatively new company. We like to say, we’ve been around for 2020. It’s been a brainchild of our CEO and co-founders for quite some time.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
As they wanted to help their friends who had some reliance on sleep, pharmaceutical sleep products.

Matt Baum:
Sure, sure.

Ethan Carr:
I’d like to say that, we’ll give ourselves just under a year we’ve been around [crosstalk 00:22:53].

Matt Baum:
Oh, brand new. Brand new.

Ethan Carr:
Relatively new, yes, sir.

Matt Baum:
All right.

Ethan Carr:
With the current situation around the world, we feel as though we’ve been able to accomplish a reasonable amount given the circumstances.

Matt Baum:
Are you telling me that people are having trouble sleeping these days? I wonder why. I haven’t noticed anything stressful going on.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, well, what a surprise. Right? You’d never know.

Matt Baum:
It’s funny. Yeah, it’s funny like that.

Ethan Carr:
It is.

Matt Baum:
So, did the owners, did they come out of the CBD realm and make the conscious decision that we’re going to switch to CBN? And if so, was it the kind of thing where they just saw a market share and said, this is where we want to be, because there is a million CBD companies out there now?

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
But, CBN seems to be very new and seems to be catching on.

Ethan Carr:
Right, yeah. I think the goal when Slumber was created was to have a breath of fresh air.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
As you just stated, CBD became a bit of a over-saturated market. There are a lot of products out there and it made it a little bit harder as a new company to gain that traction.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
So, with a CBN-specific product, we were able to focus on what we believed was a crucial issue in the cannabinoid space, which was addressing sleep assistance. I think they just really wanted to build a brand that really focused on health and wellness.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
Not as much putting out as many SKUs as possible.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
We have just a handful of products that we offer as of right now. We’re trying to keep it rather simple for the consumer.

Matt Baum:
There is something to be said [crosstalk 00:24:39] for that though, definitely. I mean, I think one of the things you should look out for, and we tell people to look out for when they’re looking into brands is, how many products are they offering? Is this a place that’s offering a couple things and doing it well, or is this a place that has pages and pages and pages of items, including CBD infused clothes and CBD infused soap and CBD dog stink spray? You got to watch for that.

Ethan Carr:
Yes, you do.

Matt Baum:
I think there is something to be said for doing it right.

Ethan Carr:
Right. There are plenty of companies out there in the CBD space that have a whole lot of SKUs and they’re all great products.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, and they’ve been around for a while doing it, yeah.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. Then they’re reputable brands and they really do believe in health and wellness. With that being said, like all industries, there is a lot of people who are in it for the quick dollar.

Matt Baum:
Of course.

Ethan Carr:
So, we focused on trying to be as helpful as possible for a specific issue.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Getting to sleep on CBN

Ethan Carr:
I think that’s why we stayed CBN-specific in our products. We wanted to focus on sleep assistance and sleep aid, people with sleep issues. If they’re able to take our CBN-specific product and get positive results-

Matt Baum:
Fantastic.

Ethan Carr:
… The answer is there. CBN was what you needed. Now, that’s not to say that everybody takes this product is going to receive a big old… They will not give us the gold star, right.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
There is many people who have taken it and said, “Hey, you know, that just didn’t quite work for me,” and that’s okay.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
The goal for us is, all right, the people that take our CBN-specific tincture, does it work, yes or no?

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
If it doesn’t work, how can we help them reach their goal?

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
That’s where we’re at right now. We’re trying to find the alternatives, whether that be… Maybe that is a CBD, CBN ratio product. Maybe that’s beneficial.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
I personally believe that taking a CBN-specific product and [inaudible 00:26:40] working is great. If it doesn’t work, we’ll readdress that at the end.

Matt Baum:
Sure. There is companies that they have things like valerian or add things like melatonin-

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
… and whatnot as well, which I don’t know about the full bioavailability science on that once you put it in oil. But, some people are doing it and it’s working for them. Let me ask you, I’m new, I know nothing about this and I come to… What’s the site? Slumber?

Ethan Carr:
Slumbercbn.com.

Matt Baum:
I come to slumbercbn.com and I’m tired, man. I just want to sleep. I’m going insane here. How do I start? What do I start with? Give me a regime. How long is going to take? Walk me through just how I get started and what I should look for to know that it’s working?

Ethan Carr:
Of course. So, if you were new to this, the cannabinoid space, and you wanted to be sure that you were getting a product that would work for you-

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
… I think the best place to start on our site would be either with our three day sleep kit vials, or our three day sleep kit soft gels. For the vials, that is three one millimeter vials of our signature solution. That is sort of an introductory product.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
If it works for you, perfect. [crosstalk 00:27:54].

Matt Baum:
How many milligrams am I getting in one millimeter when you say three one milliliter. How many milligrams of CBN?

Ethan Carr:
10 milligrams.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
10 milligrams per milliliter in our signature blends, yeah. I’d like to start people off with a sleep kit. Maybe that’s one sleep kit, maybe that’s two sleep kits, or start with 150 milligram tincture, which is half of our signature.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
That’s a step down, the more affordable option to get your feet wet in the space.

Matt Baum:
I’m getting ready to go to bed. How long before I’m going to bed am I going to take this? How long before it starts to… because I don’t want to like, “Well, it’s 5:00. I should take it now so by 10:00, I’m getting tired,” or is it so fast that 20 minutes later, I’m starting to feel it come in?

Ethan Carr:
That really breaks down to metabolism, I think. Personally, when I’m getting ready to go to bed and I feel my body, whether that’s fresh off of a run, right. Let’s say I went outside.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
I got my exercise in. Pretty rare that I did that, but let’s say that I did do that. I got my exercise in.

Matt Baum:
Guys like you and me, look at us though. I mean, we’re in the gym every day.

Ethan Carr:
That’s true.

Matt Baum:
Come on. You guys can’t see us, but we’re ripped. Don’t worry about it, anyway.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. We’re actually flexing right now, if you couldn’t see us. Yeah, I’d like to take it an hour to 45 minutes before my desired time to crawl into my bed.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
So, personally, I will get comfy, maybe on the couch reading a book, sitting outside, whatever my comfortable wind down time is. I’ll take my Slumber. Maybe on the first yawn, I’ll say, “I’m starting to feel a bit sleepy.” The feeling, it’s really no different to when you begin to feel tired.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
As you begin to feel that sleepy sensations like, hey, it’s time for me to crawl into the bed.

Matt Baum:
Right. You’re typical [crosstalk 00:29:45] wind down time is when you would say, all right, this is the end of the day, maybe I sit on the couch and watch TV or read for a little bit. But, that’s when you would say, time to take the sleep aid?

Ethan Carr:
Yes.

Matt Baum:
You’re not going to pass out on the couch? It’s not going to leave me there drooling?

Ethan Carr:
Correct, yeah. We’re not talking about an instant sleep. If we were able to make something like that with CBN, that would be a different ball game.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
That’d be it. But, yeah, we’re happy with just working you into starting to feel the sleepy sensations and help ease you into a more comfortable night’s sleep. With the growing technology and everybody being either hooked up to an iPhone, or an Apple watch, and fitness and Fitbits, they’re able to track your sleep. Right?

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
So, your Apple watch could tell you how much sleep you’ve got that night.

Matt Baum:
I’ve been tracking mine.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. So, we have a few customers who were able to say, “Hey, I took your product and on paper, I got a better night’s rest.”

Matt Baum:
Yeah. I will say, [crosstalk 00:30:47], I’ve been taking it. You guys sent me the 300 milligram we talked about, I want to say about two and a half weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago and I’ve been taking it nightly. I sleep with my iwatch on and yeah, I’m moving less. I’m rolling around less, which is something… I’m a very light sleeper and I find that I wake up, turn over, wake up, turn over. When I’m taking this, I’m not going to say it’s 100% gone.

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
But, my watch is saying, “Matt, you’re not moving around as much,” and that helps me stay more comfortable and sleep. I’ve got a great mattress. I’ve spent a bunch of money on it. I was a little upset that it didn’t just knock me out, but there are no easy answers to some of this. Right?

Ethan Carr:
Right. Oh, yeah. That’s really what we’re leaning in. I don’t have an Apple watch yet. I think I’m working on maybe getting a WHOOP, an Apple watch, something that I can really gauge my sleep schedule with and sleep patterns. Once I have some good evidence on there, I want to start to track the use of Slumber. [crosstalk 00:31:47].

Matt Baum:
I literally had no use to do it until I started doing this show and then people started sending me sleep aids and I was like, “Well, I want to see.”

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
I can wake up and be like, “I feel like I slept better.” But, that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Maybe you slept really well and you just woke up tired, or you didn’t sleep at all and you woke up feeling great. You don’t know.

Ethan Carr:
Right, right. Yeah. Who knows which one is working best for you until you have some good concrete evidence.

Matt Baum:
Totally. Totally.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, that’s what I like about some of that emerging technology that would help us solidify the efficiency of our products.

The future of Slumber CBN

Matt Baum:
Right. What’s the future for Slumber? What’s coming next?

Ethan Carr:
Ooh, the future for Slumber, without giving too, too many details away because-

Matt Baum:
Oh, come on. Come on.

Ethan Carr:
I think I might be telling you before I told anybody else on the Slumber team.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, right.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. I think the next product that’s going to come out of this facility will be a sleep gummy.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Ethan Carr:
A sleep gummy product.

Matt Baum:
Cool.

Ethan Carr:
I think we’re also going to begin to offer more alternatives. So, if the CBN-specific [inaudible 00:32:51] product isn’t working for you, hey, maybe let’s try a CBN, CBD ratio product.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Ethan Carr:
Let’s create a twice as strong CBN product. Right?

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
For those people that weren’t able to get positive results the first time, let’s see if we up your dose and up your potency, and let’s see if that works. If that doesn’t work, however much we may not all love it, a low dose of melatonin maybe that’s beneficial for you as well on this.

Matt Baum:
Sure. Sure.

Ethan Carr:
But, I think something that I’m really proud of that we’re working on will be a bit of a wellness platform. We’d like to be able to give you, not only the product, but also maybe the steps to help you find a nice night’s rest.

Matt Baum:
That’s very cool, because I think that’s something a lot of people don’t understand. You think you just take a sleep aid and then I go lay down and I just go to bed, right. I’m not sleeping. I took a sleep aid. What is the problem?

Ethan Carr:
Totally, yeah.

Matt Baum:
There might be some anxiety there, friend. Maybe we need to not stare at a blue screen, or something for a while, or turn the lights down. I think that’s a fantastic idea.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah. Similar to your morning routine, I wake up every morning at… and go downstairs and make my breakfast, get dressed, head out the door. There is some real concrete evidence that says having a nighttime routine really helps you out as well.

Matt Baum:
Absolutely.

Ethan Carr:
So, I’ve been trying to ease myself, like you said, cut off screen time at least 45 minutes beforehand-

Matt Baum:
Absolutely.

Ethan Carr:
… and get some fresh air, maybe do some stretching, maybe do some yoga, maybe do some breathing, right.

Matt Baum:
I don’t think everybody realizes that your TV is screen time too. You’re looking at the same-

Ethan Carr:
Totally.

Matt Baum:
… type of screen. It’s still LED lit up, blue background. That’s really bad for you. Your eyes equate that to sunlight, basically, and it messes with your eternal clock.

Ethan Carr:
Totally. Creating a nighttime routine also helps you trick yourself into feeling a little bit sleepy once you get that down to something that’s just part of your day-to-day every night. Let’s say that I start my routine around 8:00 PM. All of a sudden, I start to feel a little bit more sleepy at that time.

Matt Baum:
Totally.

Ethan Carr:
I could take my Slumber. I believe I will have an even better night’s sleep than I would have if I only took Slumber. I wish that I could shut my mind off, but I’m one of those people that always has the cartoon monkey with the symbols banging in your head.

Matt Baum:
Oh, same here. Absolutely.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, it’s pretty consistent.

Matt Baum:
The bear in the go-kart.

Ethan Carr:
Oh, yeah.

Matt Baum:
The chimp with the cigar.

Ethan Carr:
Yes, you name it.

Matt Baum:
The whole zoo.

Ethan Carr:
Exactly.

Matt Baum:
They’re all there freaking out.

Ethan Carr:
Exactly. So, what’s the best way to treat that, right? It more than just a supplement. It’s taking the proper steps. Right?

Matt Baum:
Absolutely.

Ethan Carr:
We think that in conjunction with the Slumber product, taking those proper steps, that’ll help you get a better night’s rest. That’s what we want to do. More than just produce sleep aid products, we want to help you reach your goal of falling asleep. Since we just had that nice conversation about what’s next for Slumber, maybe something that I’ve been messing around with in here, I just got to tune it in just right, a Slumber topical product.

Matt Baum:
Cool.

Ethan Carr:
Something that has a nice aroma.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Ethan Carr:
Because when you lay in bed, and you just got back from, let’s say, doing some exercising and you’re a bit sore…

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
… You’d take up on that when you lay down?

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
So, if we’re able to, not only address maybe some soreness and some aches and pains due to over exertion, let’s hit those with a nice topical product.

Matt Baum:
That’d be very cool, definitely.

Ethan Carr:
Let’s take some Slumber to help and let’s see if we can really get it all going.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, I love this idea. It’s nothing that anyone who doesn’t have children doesn’t already know. You have to have a routine.

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
As hard as it can be to get your kids to get ready to go to bed, once you get them in bed, they’re out cold, for the most part. I was a monster, but that’s my fault.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, I was as well. Right, [inaudible 00:36:46].

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
I wasn’t a huge fan of bedtime. I wanted to keep playing around.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Ethan Carr:
I wanted to watch that late night TV show I never got to watch it. I wanted to watch it.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Ethan Carr:
Even as an adult, actually, I like to call myself an adult sometimes, who knows if I really am, but I like to… I think that establishing that is a huge step for your wellness.

Matt Baum:
Most definitely.

Ethan Carr:
To being able to say, “Ah, 8:30, time for me to start getting ready for sleep.”

Matt Baum:
Yeah, without a doubt.

Ethan Carr:
[inaudible 00:37:16]. Maybe 8:30 is a little early. Maybe that’s just me being an old fart.

Matt Baum:
I mean, that’s adorable if you’re going to be at 8:30. I don’t know, maybe you get up at 3:00 in the morning like you’re Amish. You got to churn the butter or something. I don’t know.

Ethan Carr:
That truly would be incredible. Now that I say it, I guess it’s more of an internal goal as much as the reality.

Matt Baum:
You do not need to be awake until 2:00 in the morning, damn it.

Ethan Carr:
Yeah, right. Yeah, and then yeah, exactly. I think that there is a lot of hope for not only Slumber Sleep Aid products, but a majority of the CBN products on the market. I think that as people become more acquainted with what it is and it’s similar to CBD and CBG. Like you said earlier, we’re starting to CBG as a more popular product on store shelves. It all comes with the spreading of information. And if we can spread information about not only our brand, but also just how to help you fall asleep, perfect.

Matt Baum:
I think it’s really interesting because a lot of CBD companies that have branched into CBG or CBN, or Slumber, for example, who just decided, we’re going to go straight CBN, they have been able to break out and discover exactly what that does, how well it works, how it works. And then you can look at gently reincorporating other things to create an entourage effect, if you will.

Ethan Carr:
Right.

Matt Baum:
Like, it’s okay, we’ll add back in CBD. We’ll add a little CBG and now you have something that helps with anxiety, and gets you ready for bed, and helps with pain and whatnot. So, it’s amazing what we’re learning. It sounds like you guys are doing it right.

Final thoughts from Matt

Matt Baum:
Here is thanks again to Ethan for joining on the show today. And as always, I will have links to Slumber CBN and a fantastic guide that we have on ministryofhemp.com about CBD versus CBN, the differences, the benefits and the uses for the two in the show notes for this episode.

Matt Baum:
That was a fun and serendipitous episode, if you will. Ott Coffee is sponsoring the show. A huge thanks to them again. They brought us a way to wake up with CBD, and then we talked to Ethan Carr who told us how CBN can help us fall asleep.

Matt Baum:
Next week on the show, I’m going to talk to Evan Nison. He’s the youngest member of the board of directors of Norml. It’s spelled N-O-R-M-L. They have been fighting for cannabis legalization in the United States since the ’70s. So, it’s going to be a really cool conversation about our friends that are fighting for marijuana rights and what it means for hemp legislation as well. Be sure to check that episode out next week.

Matt Baum:
And if you need some more Ministry of Hemp in your life right now, head over to ministryofhemp.com and check out our new guest post about sustainable CBD packaging. It pairs really well with the episode we did last time where I spoke with Jordan [Henishaw 00:40:08], the CEO of Green Tech Packaging about replacing plastics with bioplastics made from hemp, very cool stuff.

Matt Baum:
We’ve also got a new post about broad spectrum CBD, comparing broad spectrums and full spectrums CBD. We get a lot of questions on that one. So, if you’re curious, it’s a great article to check out.

Matt Baum:
If you dig this show and you dig the information we are kicking out at Ministry of Hemp, there is ways you can help us. First, head over to wherever you’re downloading your podcasts and write us a short review, or give us a star rating, or whatever they do there, because it really helps when people search for this stuff to bump us up in their search algorithms.

Matt Baum:
You can head to patreon.com/ministryofhemp and become a Ministry of Hemp insider. Any amount you donate, not only helps us to continue bringing you quality hemp advocacy and education pieces, but it makes you a Ministry of Hemp insider and gets you access to early articles, podcast extras and all kinds of cool stuff. Thank you so much to everyone that’s already become a Ministry of Hemp insider.

Matt Baum:
Here at Ministry of Hemp, we believe that an accessible world is better for everyone, so we have a full written transcript for this episode in the show notes as well.

Matt Baum:
That is it for this week and I’m going to get out of here now. I like to do it the same way every time. I like to say, remember to take care of yourself, take care of others and make good decisions, will ya? This is Matt Baum with the Ministry of Hemp signing off.

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